Julz (h0cic0chica) wrote,

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i know i never really update this thing anymore but i just had a really frustrating conversation with a friend online and for those of you who are bored enough to take a look at it, i'd appreciate your opinions on the issue (Rob, I can already imagine the tirade you'll give me).

_____ (11:00:55 PM): well I am sorry I def disagee with u on the not saluting the flag thing
Punchbuggy (11:01:15 PM): don't be sorry, of course it's your right
Punchbuggy (11:01:26 PM): and i'm not even sure i disagree with the concept
Punchbuggy (11:01:31 PM): i just feel awkward doing it.
_____ (11:01:46 PM): it symbolizes freedom...I don't know how you could not stand for it.
Punchbuggy (11:02:17 PM): do you mean literally stand?
Punchbuggy (11:02:19 PM): like stand up
_____ (11:06:29 PM): yes
_____ (11:06:35 PM): hand on heart
_____ (11:06:39 PM): u know
Punchbuggy (11:06:40 PM): well i probably should've that day
_____ (11:06:51 PM): i think u should every time
Punchbuggy (11:06:54 PM): it's just not how i spent the last few years...
_____ (11:07:04 PM): but that's just me
Punchbuggy (11:07:06 PM): and it's not that i don't enjoy and appreciate freedom
Punchbuggy (11:07:08 PM): of course i do
Punchbuggy (11:07:18 PM): even though i take it for granted as much as the next person
Punchbuggy (11:07:27 PM): but i don't like everything our government stands for
Punchbuggy (11:07:31 PM): especially right now
_____ (11:07:36 PM): do u recognize that others put their lives on the line for you to have the option of sitting or standing to salute the flag?
Punchbuggy (11:07:44 PM): and everything that is associated with our government
Punchbuggy (11:07:49 PM): i do
Punchbuggy (11:08:04 PM): i appreciate them
Punchbuggy (11:08:12 PM): i have no issues with the troops
Punchbuggy (11:08:21 PM): just the governmental policies on what they do
_____ (11:08:30 PM): then i don't see why u wouldn't pay them the respect of standing and saluting the flag...it makes no sense to me.
Punchbuggy (11:08:47 PM): to me one thing has little to do with the other
_____ (11:09:04 PM): ok if that's the way u see it
_____ (11:09:13 PM): but i def disagree with u
Punchbuggy (11:09:16 PM): if i were at a service for military ppl i certainly would
Punchbuggy (11:09:19 PM): to show respect
Punchbuggy (11:09:29 PM): and i would do it in front of kids b/c i know they are expected to
_____ (11:09:40 PM): yes
Punchbuggy (11:09:42 PM): but i don't feel a personal moral obligation
Punchbuggy (11:09:53 PM): although i do feel uncomfortable about sitting
_____ (11:09:58 PM): b/c ur not out there serving
Punchbuggy (11:10:00 PM): it's an awkward position
Punchbuggy (11:10:03 PM): of course i'm not
_____ (11:10:06 PM): and i guess u don't know anyone close who is
Punchbuggy (11:10:13 PM): i have cousins in the military
_____ (11:10:15 PM): so it doesn't hit close to home for u
Punchbuggy (11:10:18 PM): but i'm not too close with them
Punchbuggy (11:10:24 PM): it doesn't
_____ (11:11:54 PM): my bro could very well die for people like u to have the option of sitting or standing to salute the flag...in my opion it's the least everyone can do.
Punchbuggy (11:12:12 PM): is yr brother serving now? i thought he was still in training
_____ (11:12:43 PM): he's graduating this yr and will be going to iraq at some pt....he'll be serving 5 yrs active, 3 reserve...a total of 8 yrs.
Punchbuggy (11:12:57 PM): that's a long time
_____ (11:13:12 PM): yes it is...and who knows how many tours he'll have to do there
Punchbuggy (11:13:30 PM): i hope he'll be safe
Punchbuggy (11:13:42 PM): but i also hope this whole iraq thing ends before he has to go there
_____ (11:13:51 PM): so don't tell me u don't like saluting the flag
Punchbuggy (11:13:51 PM): it seems like a waste of lives and funds to me
Punchbuggy (11:13:57 PM): don't take it personally.
Punchbuggy (11:14:02 PM): i have nothing against your brother
_____ (11:14:09 PM): the war is here on our soil
Punchbuggy (11:14:08 PM): or any military people
_____ (11:14:14 PM): there is a complete mess
Punchbuggy (11:14:26 PM): i don't like what they are being asked to do
Punchbuggy (11:14:45 PM): i am sure he believes in it or he wouldn't have volunteered
_____ (11:14:49 PM): are u going to t ell me something like innocent women and children are dieing
Punchbuggy (11:14:53 PM): i'm not saying that
_____ (11:15:36 PM): b/c if ur going to say that then I think u should go live there for a while and then come back and tell me if u still feel like not saluting our flag.
_____ (11:15:44 PM): I think you'd have a real quick change of heart.
Punchbuggy (11:16:59 PM): i can only say how i currently feel based on my life experiences and opinions.
Punchbuggy (11:17:09 PM): i'm not saying i am "right"
_____ (11:17:16 PM): good
Punchbuggy (11:17:23 PM): not trying to say anyone else is "wrong"
Punchbuggy (11:17:45 PM): but part of living in a free country is the right to choose how you exprss yourself, or not.
_____ (11:18:13 PM): of course, but don't not salute the flag....
_____ (11:18:34 PM): that flag represents why u have the right to even have an opion
_____ (11:18:41 PM): ion
Punchbuggy (11:18:51 PM): i hear what you are saying, and i see where you are coming from.
_____ (11:18:54 PM): pick something else
Punchbuggy (11:19:03 PM): and i'm not trying to actively make a stand against the flag.
Punchbuggy (11:19:10 PM): i am just saying i feel odd saluting it
Punchbuggy (11:19:19 PM): it doesn't feel genuine
Punchbuggy (11:19:27 PM): but that is probably because of my life experiences
_____ (11:20:04 PM): next time u feel odd saluting it...think of all the freedoms u have and imagine them stripped from you...you'll be on ur feet in no time....or imagine a family member blown up in another attack.
Punchbuggy (11:20:20 PM): i can see that u feel very strongly about this
Punchbuggy (11:20:28 PM): the last thing i want is to argue with you
Punchbuggy (11:21:00 PM): and i hope you don't see this as disrespectful towards you or your brother because that is not my intent at all
Punchbuggy (11:21:12 PM): i will keep my opinions on the matter to myself from now on
_____ (11:21:26 PM): well ur also talking to someone who's family member could die for people like u who take saluting hte flag with a grain of salt while others put their lives on the line.
Punchbuggy (11:21:31 PM): of course.
Punchbuggy (11:21:52 PM): we see it differently. it has a ton more meaning to you than it does to me.
Punchbuggy (11:21:57 PM): it symbolizes a lot more.
_____ (11:22:08 PM): if it weren't for that flag you'd have no choice in anything
Punchbuggy (11:22:24 PM): not the flag, but the people who fought to keep me free.
_____ (11:22:29 PM): how it symbolizes nothing to u is beyond me given what happened here in our own backyard.
Punchbuggy (11:22:42 PM): it symbolizes more than that though...
Punchbuggy (11:22:48 PM): a corrupt government
Punchbuggy (11:22:51 PM): and i cannot salute that
_____ (11:23:07 PM): omg juliet...give me a break...go live somewhere else then
Punchbuggy (11:23:17 PM): well...ok
Punchbuggy (11:23:24 PM): that's a reasonable thing to say.
Punchbuggy (11:23:35 PM): i'm not going to say any more, i don't want this to get ugly.
Punchbuggy (11:23:53 PM): i'm not pretending to be some sort of expert, i'm not.
Punchbuggy (11:23:58 PM): i'm just being honest
_____ (11:24:05 PM): i know u r
_____ (11:24:06 PM): which is good
Punchbuggy (11:24:06 PM): and that is how i feel
_____ (11:24:10 PM): but i think u should also reassess
Punchbuggy (11:24:37 PM): i respect your opinions highly
Punchbuggy (11:24:45 PM): but i want to keep my own
Punchbuggy (11:25:17 PM): if and when something happens that makes me change my mind, and i hope it doesn't because it won't be something good, i will call you to tell you you were right.
Punchbuggy (11:26:00 PM): and i love you and your brother, and god bless him for supporting his country, and bless you for supporting him.
_____ (11:26:33 PM): he's also supporting people like u who don't wanna stand fvor the flag because of bullshit reasons
Punchbuggy (11:26:39 PM): i thank him for that too.
_____ (11:27:08 PM): i'm telling u...u can have ur opinons all u want, but don't do it in front of me because I'll throw a tomatoe or something at u
Punchbuggy (11:27:21 PM): well i know better now than to discuss it with you again
_____ (11:27:33 PM): and u don't thank him for it
_____ (11:27:38 PM): if u did...u would stand for mpeople like him
Punchbuggy (11:27:47 PM): like i said the flag is not the people to me
Punchbuggy (11:27:54 PM): if he was in a procession i would stand for him
Punchbuggy (11:28:02 PM): it's not the same thing to me
Punchbuggy (11:28:12 PM): but i digress, i really don't want to continue
_____ (11:28:20 PM): u think the flag is the government
Punchbuggy (11:28:25 PM): it's a lot of things
_____ (11:28:50 PM): the flag is the people...
_____ (11:28:53 PM): no people, no flag
Punchbuggy (11:28:54 PM): ok
Punchbuggy (11:29:05 PM): i'm ready to change the topic
_____ (11:29:13 PM): go right ahead
Punchbuggy (11:29:13 PM): ok.
Punchbuggy (11:29:32 PM): well...i don't have anything else to say really
_____ (11:29:44 PM): i think u've said enough
Punchbuggy (11:29:42 PM): are you going in tomorrow?
_____ (11:29:52 PM): yes
Punchbuggy (11:29:52 PM): ok
Punchbuggy (11:30:35 PM): i will see you tomorrow then
_____ (11:30:43 PM): sure
_____ (11:30:52 PM): night
Punchbuggy (11:30:53 PM): good night
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